Talk:Mechanical 2.16.2009
After the completion of the Rally on Monday 2/16 and our ensuing mechanical team discussion ending at 11:45 PM regarding the issue of the present robot conveyor design’s inability to maintain the conveyor belts on the pulleys under adverse ball loading conditions I offer the following potential design alterations in remedation of the problem.
In consideration of the present physical and time constraints we could emulate a similar conveyor belting implementation as the Honeoye falls team by making 1.5” diameter x 21.87” long cylinders out of PVC, creating round belt paths at 1.75 inch centers using the belt material that the Honeoye team has graciously offered to supply us at no charge. Additionally replace the solid ¾ Aluminum shaft with ½ inch 1/16 wall Aluminum tubing for the top 3 front shafts and the 2 rear shafts, reducing weight and assembly/disassembly difficulty since ½” matches the diameter of the present conveyor shaft bearings.
Further considering, when we have the belt spacing at 1.5-2 inches the ball path opening probably has to be between 8-8.5 inches not to create excessive deformity of the balls leading to damage of the ball playing piece. With the present frame structure, bearing mounts and range of adjustment, we would need to reduce the pulley diameters for the new top 3 front row belt pulleys and top 2 rear row pulleys to approximately 1.5 inches. That would allow for a ball path opening with the adjustment we have to be a maximum of approximately 8.75 inches.
That would leave the plucker and divider setup on the front and lower conveyors all the same.
One thing that we may also consider is to then remove the 2 outer outside plucker belts from the inside of the frame to outside the frame and add more pluckers to the front lower shaft. This will eliminate throwing that belt which was the last event that occurred during the final test last night. It would also elimate having pluckers interfere into the drive belts.
In support of possibly moving the lower shaft belts out ouside of the gathering ball path, It was proven accidently during the short test last night, that the front pluckers by themselves can gather a ball and push it very easily up the conveyor path with no belts attached in the proximity of the plucker gathering entrance as balls accidently entering that side and would then be thrown back out of the front of the robot hitting TomC as he was manually feeding balls into the gathering input:)
Are there any other thoughts in regard to the above?
Estimated required materials for the above redesign if decided to pursue by the team
Notes:
- If PVC pipe is used for the rollers then item 2 would not be required - Might be a weight problem.
- If we manufacture belts in some other fashion items 4 and 5 would not be required.
| Item | Description | Manufacture | Part Number | Quantity | Cost |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Multipurpose Aluminum (Alloy 6061) Tube 1/2" OD, .370" ID, .065" Wall Thickness, 6' Length | McMaster Carr | 9056K661 | 2 | $56 |
| 2 | Multipurpose Aluminum (Alloy 6061) Tube 1-1/2" OD, 1.370" ID, .065" Wall Thickness, 6' Long | McMaster Carr | 9056K791 | 2 | $104 |
| 3 | Black Nylon 6/6 Rod 1-1/2" Diameter x 2' Long (Black) | McMaster Carr | 8541K27 | 2' | $18 |
| 4 | Urethane Hollow Core Round Belting Yellow, 3/16" OD, 1-1/2" Minimum Pulley Diameter x 200' Long | McMaster Carr | 6567K56 | 200' | $122 |
| 5 | Aluminum Connector for 3/16" Outside Diameter Urethane Hollow Core Round Belting This product is sold in Packs of 25 | McMaster Carr | 6567k26 | 4 | $20 |
Link to Larry's note in Mechanical 2.19.2009 regarding additional intel on teams using round belts
penfieldrobotics.com/wiki/index.php
Links to our Form with discussuion and pictures of Teams 148 and 1114 multi-belt implementations
http://penfieldrobotics.com/forum/index.php?topic=2508.msg8707#msg8707
Link to TomC's in house belting Inventory and Thoughts from 2.15.2009
http://penfieldrobotics.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mechanical_2.15.2009
Link to our Form's "Great Robots you don't want to miss"
http://penfieldrobotics.com/forum/index.php?topic=2507.msg8702#msg8702
Clear Videos of teams 100 and 148 in action. Scroll up to the top of the link to see them.
Other good toughts and stuff here regarding ball path desgin.
Two lane ball seperation on team 100's robot.
Both very effect close center belt systems.
Gracious offers and information from Honeyoe Falls Team 2228
From: Fleming, Paul J - SSD [n]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:33 PM
To: 'Dave Vadas'
Subject: RE: Robotics
Dave,
Sorry for the delay on this, trying to catch up with work put off by the end of build season.
The key parts are the Roller End Bearings from MSC Industrial Supply:
Line
Item # Big Book®
Page # Qty.
Quoted Unit
Price Ext.
Price
1 00266668
3653
10 $7.41 $74.10
Description: 2" SCH80 1/2 ID ROLLER END BRG-UHMW
They were out of stock so the above quotation is for 10 pcs we had direct shipped from the factory. They now have stock of 20 pcs again, so you should be able to order in the normal fashion from MSC.
We combined this with hollow aluminum tubing with a 1.93 inch ID from McMaster Carr:
8978K895
(Same as 8978K26)
Rigid Aluminum Tubing 2" OD, 1.93" ID, .035" Wall Thickness, 6' Length
In stock at $23.04 Each
We meet next on Saturday from 9 to 4 and could make arrangements to give you some material if that works. Should you need it sooner we can see if we can get Darin Ledwith to cut a piece at school tomorrow and have it available for your pickup. If you have any questions at any time you are welcome to call my cell at 474-6958.
Regards,
Paul Fleming
Team 2228
________________________________________
From: Dave Vadas [n]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 2:18 PM
To: Fleming, Paul J - SSD
Cc: michael.wolf@kodak.com; mtwolf1@aol.com; 'Thomas Kanzler'
Subject: Robotics
Hi Paul,
It was a pleasure to meet you Monday at the Rally. We are not sure yet, however we may want to take you up on your gracious offer for some of that belting material. Also, what was the name of the manufacturing that you purchased the conveyor roller end caps from?
If the team does decide to go that way, where and when would be some times that we might pick up some of the belting material?
Best Regards,
Dave Vadas
VP Engineering Services & Solutions
www.AssurX.com
mailto: dvadas@assurx.com
Phone: 408.778.1376 x713
Fax: 585.486.6520
2/21 Mechanical team meeting to discuss Robot conveyor redesign
In Attendance:
Larry, Kim, TomK, DaveV, AlexV, MikeW, AlexW, TomC, Tony
Time: 10 AM - 1:10 PM EST
Location: PHS L1 Back Room
All discussed the option for conveyor redesign. It seemed to end in a consensus to implement a rework for the top belt tiers for the front and back conveyors with the close center round belt design consisting of 9-10 belts on 1.75-2" centers leaving the first tier shafts, pulleys and pluckers as is. Design implementation will be similar to Honeoye falls implementation and utilize their gracious offer to use their conveyor belting material donated from Cross Brothers for in between each round belt.
Think MikeW was going to work out the details with for consensus and ordering of materials on Saturday for arrival on Tuesday in which part fabrication at PHS could begin.
Addtional Status Info Added by Tom Kanzler 2/23 PM
Materials ordered on 2/21 include (2) 6 ft lengths of 1.5" OD x .065" wall 6061 round tube, (2) 6 ft lengths of 1/2" OD x .085 wall 6061 round tube (both from onlinemetals.com), (1) 12" length of 1.5" OD black nylon round stock, additional round belt (same as we are now using), and possibly some small hardware (need clarification on this) from McMaster-Carr.
Retrieved from http://penfieldrobotics.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Mechanical_2.16.2009
2/25 Status Update
All ordered material from McMaster received yeaterday - What got done
- Made most of the new required parts for the RIT retool 2/24/2009
- Created parts list for all newly required parts and weighed all parts a they were made. Parts list in box with parts on job shelf.
- All (5) 1/2 Dia. shafts made... .5 lbs each
- All (5) 1-1/2 Dia. pulley tubes made... .6 lbs each
- (2) Nylon Pulley End caps made .0 lbs each
- (10) 1/2 clamp collar... .34 lbs total
- Assembled one complete pulley roller assembly... .68 lbs... a reduction of aproximately 1.28 lbs. per conveyor shft assembly.
Need to complete
- Get a .501+ Dia. drill or expanding reamer to open up nylon endcaps... present .495 drill cutting about .498, shat running at .501... to tight of fit.
- Get flate belt conveyor material from Paul at Honeoye falls.
- Finsh 8 more Nylon end caps
- Mount flat belt material onto pulley rollers with glue and pop rivets
- make parts for new center divider top
- make and inventory all required round belts for RIT re-tool
- Assemble a test setup with all the new parts and check everything out.
Next Mechanical Working Sessions
- Josh is going to talk to the school and verify Thursday night 6-9 PM and Saturday 10-5 PM.
- Josh, please update the WIKI here with confirmation
- We all hope Mr. Wolf is feeling better... we all miss him...
New End Cap shaft bore upsizing
From: Dave Vadas [1]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:47 AM
To: 'Dal Santo, Tony'; 'Mechanical 1 Build Season Subteam'; 'Mechanical 2 Build Season Subteam'; 'O'Toole Eckhardt, Kimberly'; 'Eric Eckhardt'
Cc: 'Cavaliere, Thomas M'; 'Thomas Kanzler'; 'mtwolf1@aol.com'; 'michael.wolf@kodak.com'
Subject: RE: Robot Nylon Holes
Tony,
Sounds good. We are waiting to her if Josh is going to set something up for possibly Thursday 6-9 PM and most definitely for Saturday 10-5 PM.
Keep your eye on the Wiki… for updates.
Best Regards,
Dave Vadas
VP Engineering Services & Solutions
www.AssurX.com
mailto: dvadas@assurx.com
Phone: 408.778.1376 x713
Fax: 585.486.6520
From: Dal Santo, Tony [2]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:45 AM
To: Dave Vadas
Cc: Cavaliere, Thomas M; Thomas Kanzler; mtwolf1@aol.com; michael.wolf@kodak.com
Subject: RE: Robot Nylon Holes
I'll check my reamer collection. I don't have an expandable one unfortunately. If not a reamer, I was planning on a boring bar on the lathe. As you say, it would probably "scrape" more than cut, but I still think the results would be fine.
Unfortunately I couldn't make it last night. When are people getting together next? Tonight?
Tony
________________________________________
From: Dave Vadas [3]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Dal Santo, Tony
Cc: 'Cavaliere, Thomas M'; 'Thomas Kanzler'; mtwolf1@aol.com; michael.wolf@kodak.com
Subject: RE: Robot Nylon Holes
Tony,
Great… both Tom’s and I were hoping so possibly last night! Do you happen to have a 501+ reamer or possibly and expandable one? Nylon is tough to single point bore a few thousands because with a small chip it really wants to more smear or move out of the way verses cut a chip.
Best Regards,
Dave Vadas
VP Engineering Services & Solutions
www.AssurX.com
mailto: dvadas@assurx.com
Phone: 408.778.1376 x713
Fax: 585.486.6520
From: Dal Santo, Tony [4]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:06 AM
To: dvadas@assurx.com
Subject: Robot Nylon Holes
Dave,
If needed, I can bore out those holes in the nylon endcaps. I can either do it on the lathe, or I might even have a reamer the right size ( I don't have many).
Let me know if you'd like me to do that.
Tony Dal Santo
Honeoye Fall flat belt material Correspondence/Pickup
From: Dave Vadas [5]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:56 AM
To: 'Fleming, Paul J - SSD'
Subject: RE: [Mechanical2] Robotics
Paul,
Sound like a plan… I will try to make it down your way tonight. What is the location?
What is your mobile phone number in case? Mine is 585.802.3554.
Best Regards,
Dave Vadas
VP Engineering Services & Solutions
www.AssurX.com
mailto: dvadas@assurx.com
Phone: 408.778.1376 x713
Fax: 585.486.6520
From: Fleming, Paul J - SSD [6]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:47 AM
To: 'Dave Vadas'
Subject: RE: [Mechanical2] Robotics
Dave,
We are meeting tonight from 6:30 to about 9pm. The meeting is a parents/students meeting for travel, but we will be there and happy to transfer some material to you. The piece we have prepared is about 20 inches long by 24 inches across, if I remember from Saturday correctly. If not tonight the next time we are meeting would be Saturday at 9am I think. If need be I can grab material tonight and make arrangements for a Thursday or Friday handoff. If your estimates require more material let us know. Best of luck with the change.
Regards,
Paul Fleming
Senior Staff Engineer
ITT Corporation
Space Systems Division
800 Lee Road
Rochester, NY 14606-0488
585-269-5287
paul.fleming@itt.com
________________________________________
From: Dave Vadas [7]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:37 AM
To: Fleming, Paul J - SSD; 'O'Toole Eckhardt, Kimberly'; 'Lewis Jr, Larry'
Cc: 'Thomas Kanzler'; mtwolf1@aol.com; michael.wolf@kodak.com; 'Cavaliere, Thomas M'
Subject: RE: [Mechanical2] Robotics
Hi Paul,
The team has decided to go the conveyor route similar to you teams. We have all our new parts fabricated (rollers, caps, shafts etc).
We would like to take you up on your gracious offer for some of the flat conveyor belting material.
What would be some time(s) that we many visit and pick some up?
Best Regards,
Dave Vadas
VP Engineering Services & Solutions
www.AssurX.com
mailto: dvadas@assurx.com
Phone: 408.778.1376 x713
Fax: 585.486.6520
Tom C's Ash Wed. inspiration and thoughts!
Here is something I would like the group to think about relative to an optional (instead of the flat belting) construction for between the round belts. What if we were to wind 1/4" tube inbetween the round belts? Here is the benefit and suggested construction:
1. If you wind in alternate directions on each side of the round belt - you create a left hand screw thread on one side and a right hand screw thread on the other. What that should do is be a self correcting round belt centering feature. If a belt pops off to the right onto the wound tubing, as the shaft turns, the tube will guide the round belt back into position. If it pops off to the left, the left hand wind will direct the round belt back into position as the shaft turns.
2. Assume 2" round belt center distance using 1/4" round belt. That gives you 1.75" between edges of round belt. That's enough for 7 wraps of a 1/4" diameter material - say use the 1/4" plucker material . I would do 3.5 wraps in one direction starting from the one belt and 3.5 wraps from the other direction starting from the other round belt. Ending both wraps in the middle between the two round belts.
3. I would drill a snug fit hole (same size as the wrap tube material) close to the round belt, and I would stuff an inch or so into the hole before I started wrapping my 3.5 turns, and do the same from the other side. Could use a small screw to anchor both ends in the middle, or stuff them into a hole and pin with a screw or rivet or hot glue.
4. Could use slightly smaller OD wrap material say 3/16" diameter and achieve the same affect.
5. Here's a biggy, it adds to the pimp my robot look - we could use red material for left hand and black for right hand wraps. Or take a vote for any other combo - red back, black front, alternate red shaft, black shaft and throw in an orange sections (go 340!).
2.26.2009 Update
• DaveV picked up a large amount o the belt conveyor material from Honeoye Falls last night
• Will deliver to PHS Thursday night.
• Concerns using the material are”
o Effort
o Weight
o Attachment
• TomC’s Ash Wednesday’s inspirational alternative sounds like a great idea…
o Simplicity
o ease of implementation
o possible performance enhancement driving belts to center
o aesthetics
• We should consider trying the inspiration before attempting to attach the flat belt conveyor material… nothing lose and potentially some real gain… others please add you thoughts and ideas with the “+” discussion tab.
• NOT SURE if the mechanical team has the school scheduled for tonight
o Josh please advise all today?
From: mechanical1-bounces@penfieldrobotics.com [8] On Behalf Of Thomas Kanzler
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:31 AM
To: Mechanical 2 Build Season Subteam; Mechanical 1 Build Season Subteam
Cc: Eric Eckhardt
Subject: Re: [Mechanical1] [Mechanical2] Conveyor Redesign Discussion (new 2/19/2009) -2/26Status update added.
That would be great, Tom. We should probably try reaming an existing hole before drilling any more, and if it doesn't cut due to not enough material (see Dave's prior comments about shallow cuts on nylon), we can bore the remaining plugs a little smaller so the reamer has something to work with. Holding off the final drilling won't hold anything up, since I've been rechucking for that last operation anyway, and they could all just be done at once as a final step. The reduced OD cutting is the time-consuming part.
Thomas Kanzler, PE
Chief Engineer
Federated Crane Co., L.L.C.
Ph 585.381.1663
Fx 585.381.5336
----- Original Message -----
From: Cavaliere, Thomas M
To: Mechanical 2 Build Season Subteam ; Mechanical 1 Build Season Subteam
Cc: Eric Eckhardt
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Mechanical2] Conveyor Redesign Discussion (new 2/19/2009) -2/26Status update added.
Also - I checked my tools and I have a .503" reamer - I will bring tonight if we want to use to final size the bore of the nylon plugs.
________________________________________
From: mechanical2-bounces@penfieldrobotics.com [9] On Behalf Of Dave Vadas
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:56 AM
To: 'Mechanical 1 Build Season Subteam'; 'Mechanical 2 Build Season Subteam'
Cc: 'Eric Eckhardt'
Subject: [Mechanical2] Conveyor Redesign Discussion (new 2/19/2009) - 2/26Status update added.
Conveyor Redesign Discussion (new 2/19/2009) - 2/26 Status update added.
From: mechanical1-bounces@penfieldrobotics.com [10] On Behalf Of O'Toole Eckhardt, Kimberly
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 3:34 PM
To: Mechanical 2 Build Season Subteam; Mechanical 1 Build Season Subteam
Subject: Re: [Mechanical1] [Mechanical2] Conveyor Redesign Discussion (new2/19/2009)-2/26Status update added.
The school is reserved 6-9pm (although staff is on all night, so if you are just using the shop you are good for whenever you need). It is also reserved Saturday 10-5pm, and if I can encourage you all to try and take the morning shift, we have an opportunity to go bowling with the Jefferson team at 2pm, so some of your students might be leaving...
Short Video of TomC's Eureka Idea
Place link to uploaded video here...
Date/Time Dimensions User Comment
current 20:08, 1 March 2009 (1.75 MB) Mechanical1 (Talk | contribs) (Short ziped up video file of the test of using counter wound poly u tubing to create a round belt path and to maitain the belt in the path in the event that it is disloggeed from it.)
http://penfieldrobotics.com/wiki/images/d/dc/TomC_Eureka_Moment_POC.zip
Summary from 2-26-09
http://penfieldrobotics.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mechanical_2.28.2009
